Talk:Unnamed Characters
Where does it ever hint in lost tales or any wiki that Elmo had a daughter and Lenwe had a brother? Some of these just appear to be fanfic, I thought this section was suppose to have characters who are mentioned in the canon of Lord of the Rings, Hobbit, Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and Silmarillion--but not fanfic. I agree with sons of Olwe, Badger-Brock, etc. because they are stated in the books to have these. But where does it say anything about Elmo's kids and Lenwe's brother? Moran half valar (talk) 18:29, June 7, 2016 (UTC) :Well Duileth appears here: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10437713/1/A-Host-of-Memories http://ncfan-1.tumblr.com/post/89103195072/giving-names-to-some-of-tolkiens-textual-ghosts Eowa here: http://www.planet-tolkien.com/viewtopic.php?t=4082&start=20 While I agree that no child of Elmo's or sibling of Lenwe's' is mentioned explicitly,though it is hinted at a kinship between Eol and the Sindar and a kinship between Thanduil and the royal house of Doriath.It´s well devised, even if fanfic.Should I split this page into an extra category for pure fanfic characters?--Haerangil (talk) 18:49, June 7, 2016 (UTC) Personally? Probably, I mean we already have a fanfic page anyways. Were I to place the "Son of Morgoth: Moran" on this page, I would think it to be far-fetched since Tolkien didn't talk about Valar having kids--canon wise anyways. So I think they should be separate. Moran half valar (talk) 18:54, June 7, 2016 (UTC) Any unnamed Maiar? Maybe that Guard who was set up to watch over the Elves when they first awoke? Moran half valar (talk) 22:41, September 3, 2016 (UTC) :Actually I always thought that Guard was the last trace or Appearance of Makar, as the Warrior-Siblings Guarded the Pelori to the north.But theres another Guard mentioned to Guard the Pelori in the Silmarillion, so both Guards may have been different characters.I also think about Morgoth's Captain (different from Gothmog and Sauron) and the Shadow-Spirit he sent as Messenger in the lost Tales.The Guard at Cuivienen could as well been one of Oromes Hunters, maybe even Alatar.Morgoth's Captain may have been anyone, Fankil, Langon, Lungorthin.The Shadow Spirit might actually have been Morthrog.--Haerangil (talk) 00:58, September 4, 2016 (UTC) That's interesting thank you for sharing I'll keep that in mind as well. Moran half valar (talk) 04:02, September 4, 2016 (UTC) The reason why I asked, is because I actually believe in the canon of Lord of the Rings and Silmarillion, and I disagree with the current following of Alatar and Pallando coming in the Second Age, Gil Galad being the son of Ordreth, and Glorfindel being returned from the dead--and don't get me started on Celebrimbor possessing Talion. But I thought about removing Alatar and Pallando from the Second Age White Council, since they weren't present during this time according to the canon of the story. They can stay in the Third Age but I figured they just don't fit in the Second. Moran half valar (talk) 04:06, September 4, 2016 (UTC) :Well it's more complicated I think. I´d also prefer Alatar and Pallando arriving about T.A. 1000, but there's no definite statement about that in LotR, Gil-Galad as Fingon's son is simply an editorial mistake. Glorfindels return from the dead i'm actually okay with.Celebrimbor possessing Talion is from Shadows of Mordor... --Haerangil (talk) 09:30, September 4, 2016 (UTC) In that case, do you care if I change around some of the white council members of the second age? I'll knock off Alatar and Pallando and put someone more fitting, do you care though if it is the guardian of Cuinevien? I would like at least one Maiar on there since the text states that the Council was made up of Wizards (Maiar), Elves, and Wise. Do you have a canonical name or semi canonical name I can use? I was thinking about Quelbaras since he is a Maia and states that he was to watch over the elves, or how about Lusion? Moran half valar (talk) 14:25, September 4, 2016 (UTC) If you are comfortable with the way it is I'll just leave it as is. Moran half valar (talk) 14:37, September 4, 2016 (UTC) No way Alatar was the guard of Cuinevien. How would he be chief of Orome's people then? I think someone else is better suited. As for the messenger of Morgoth, I am not sure if you are referring to the passage in lost tales where Morgoth sent out a messenger to the Valar, but that Maiar was Langon. He was known as the messenger that went to talk to the Valar, not Morthrog. Moran half valar (talk) 14:46, September 4, 2016 (UTC) : I´m referring to a different Messenger, a fallen Spirit of Mandos whose name was not mentioned, but who was "slain" by Tulkas. As Ainur may re-embody it could have been a Spirit that later returned.As for the Guard at Cuivienen, Whom would Orome chose if not one of his highest, most trusted, most powerful Captains? Alatar and Tilion would be my first Ideas if I was him. But I´m okay with Telimektar. Who is Vrok? I think the Captain of Morgoth should either be a Balrog or Warrior-Demon. We can rule out Gothmog who was slain at the point, we can rule out Sauron who had been humiliated by Luthien and repented after Morgoth's Fall, we can rule out Fankil who had disappeared in the east and we can possibly rule out Kuruki, for he seems to have been only a minor servant.So more prominent Names that remain are Lungorthin, Ulbandi, Langon and the five nameless Balrogs.--Haerangil (talk) 19:09, September 5, 2016 (UTC) I would go with a nameless Balrog or some type of chaotic beast. Vrok was a evil creature off the angband game from d and d. You can delete him and place whoever you want. Still need two more slots for the second age white council though, and one of them I feel should be a maiar, faerie, or something different. Moran half valar (talk) 19:12, September 5, 2016 (UTC) :I'm okay with Vrok as a placeholder for now.As for the white council i just wouldn't restrict myself too much to the number of fourteen.Minastir can't have been a member considering the date. Dúrin III - possible but I personally doubt it.I wouldn't rule out the Ithryn Luin completely, but I think it's not very likely.--Haerangil (talk) 19:31, September 5, 2016 (UTC) Haerangil, I thought we said Fankil as the Dark Horseman was a no no. The Dark Horseman already has a page dedicated to him individually and Fankil was scared of Muar, no way Fankil and the Dark Horseman are one in the same. Also Lungorthin for the Captain of Morgoth? Really? You really believe Lungorthin died that early? It seems uncanonical to his character given that he is the captain of Morgoth's personal bodyguard. I doubt he would be there since he is the captain of his bodyguard. Really I feel if you are going to use Lungorthin, he should be the War of Wrath captain, not Battle of Unnumbered tears since that captain was killed. Moran half valar (talk) 02:39, October 6, 2016 (UTC) :Okay so let's make this out: 1. Fankil scared of Muar? Maybe, but not that early. We´re talking about the time prior to awakening of men and prior to the Great Wandering, Plus Fankil was Morgoths main Agent in the East so he would be my first choice for leader of his Dark Hunters. 2. Lungorthin was slain by the Adan Lord Olrakhor, seems to fit this happened in the Battle of unnumbered tears where the Edain, especially those of Hithlum played a major role. 3. IIRC Gothmog was Captain of Morgoths Bodyguard, not Lungorthin, MERP makes him the Captain of the Bodyguard, but that is no contradiction if Lungorthin died prior to Gothmog.--Haerangil (talk) 04:19, October 6, 2016 (UTC) Well if you are going to do that then I suggest editing Fankil's page, since there is a bit in there about him being afraid of Muar--I agree that he wouldn't be, but I thought you had edited that page and did the backstory. Very well, you seem to justify this well, but shouldn't we connect the Dark Horseman page and Fankil's page together? Moran half valar (talk) 22:46, October 6, 2016 (UTC) Yeah Tredinos is a better option. Moran half valar (talk) 22:53, October 6, 2016 (UTC) :I´m more happy with this solution too.Gives the Cult of the Dark Overlord a Reason why they should summon that Demon, if he was a Hunter who could be used if they collect enough energy for him to manifest again.Also sounds better if Fankil is more into intrigue and Tredeinos is a muscle.--Haerangil (talk) 00:09, October 7, 2016 (UTC) I agree totally. Moran half valar (talk) 03:23, October 7, 2016 (UTC) Lady of the Blue Brooch Haerangil, where does the Lady of the Blue Brooch (Last Cardolan Princess) come from and is she around during the time of Arvedui? Can I use her with Arthedain? Also what about the last Cardolan King? Could I use him during the time of Arvedui? Seems unlikely, but I know refugees ran to Arthedain after being destroyed and absorbed by Angmar. Moran half valar (talk) 16:30, October 15, 2016 (UTC) :Well: http://www.planet-tolkien.com/board/5/4764/0/who-was-the-blue-brooch-lady?- :I think she was someone buried in the barrow downs whom Bombadil remembered... I always thought it might have referred to someone like Nirnadel or Finduilas Calantir, but then by chance I saw that there was a fanfic story about that blue brooch in which the Lady who wore it was named Celarien, so i adopted the name.I don't know... if you wish to use her name you should maybe try to find the fanfic story and read it. Anyway as a heirloom that particular brooch may have belonged to many Noble ladies before it was buried with Celarien, maybe it had once belonged to Nirdanel or Finduilas Calantir before it was handed down to Celarien.--Haerangil (talk) :So was she alive during the time of Arvedui? Yes or no? Moran half valar (talk) 23:49, October 15, 2016 (UTC) ::Frankly, i haven' t the slightest idea.--Haerangil (talk) 05:02, October 16, 2016 (UTC) ::It's okay man, I won't. I replaced her and Malbeth on my list with Elladan and Elrohir. So no worries. Keep up the good edits man. You do a great job. Seriously. Moran half valar (talk) 05:14, October 16, 2016 (UTC) Where the hell are you finding all these names? Yaru? Who is that and where? Or are you that good at the linguistic aspects of Tolkien? Moran half valar (talk) 23:12, November 6, 2016 (UTC) I added Morgoth's embassy members that captured Maedhros in the Silmarillion. Moran half valar (talk) 05:03, April 1, 2017 (UTC) :I#m browsing the Web for fanfic, Yaru and a few other names I made up, if i ever find someone who expanded that role in his fanfic story I#d replace it, butby now it#s a good placeholder I guess.I'm no linguist but I'm doing my best to use Tolkienian linguistics in a proper way. Yaru appears in the Lost tales, but his name is not mentioned. I called him Yaru, which is an old Quenya word for Gloom or blight. --Haerangil (talk) 15:23, April 7, 2017 (UTC) I am convinced that the fanfic of Anarion's children HAS to be changed to fit the canon of the books. I don't care if you make them females or males, but they HAD to survive the fall of Numenor since 1. The Faithful left without Ar-Pharazon knowing, 2. Their FAMILIES escaped aboard the ships, and lastly 3. they still could have died in Anarion's defense of Osgiliath. I don't mind fanfic unless it contradicts with the lore too much, in which case, these three females do. I'll change it if you don't, but I may throw in a son of Anarion in there if I do. Moran half valar (talk) 03:47, October 21, 2017 (UTC) :I agree. The author of the article, Spenpiano, has posted a lot of not very well researched articles and caused me many troubles and work or research and corrections. The writers who made up Númeniel and her sisters do not mention her death in the drowning: http://ncfan-1.tumblr.com/post/117568620487/women-of-n%C3%BAmenor-set-twenty-seven-rany%C3%AB-sa --Haerangil (talk) 22:42, October 27, 2017 (UTC) First off, I like to apologize for about the character and thinking that she perished during the drowning of Numenor. When I found the two references from the page Elenalóto, I saw the exact dates. *Fanfiction: The Drawing Room: Women of Númenor: Set Twenty-Seven *Fanfiction:The Drawing Room:Giving names to some of Tolkien’s textual ghosts --Spenpiano (talk) 21:30, November 12, 2017 (UTC) the New shadow "I don't know what would be a more fitting name for the New Shadow. But given what little we know and that Tolkien talks about the "roots of evil" i would say that the New Shadow was probably some evil spirit of arda left over by melkor" could you... specify what exactly you DO mean? I do´t really get your point...Haerangil (talk) 10:39, March 4, 2018 (UTC) Okay in Tolkien's story "The New Shadow" he talks about the Dark Cult run by Herumor that worships "The New Shadow." So who is it? Based on what we know, I would think the New Shadow to be either: Curumo (spirit blown away from the west after WOTR), One of the Blue Wizards, an evil spirit of Arda that was placed deep in the underdeeps (more likely than any since Tolkien talks about the Shadow's "roots" and how they delve), or lastly, perhaps it is Amnon. Moran half valar (talk) 10:48, March 4, 2018 (UTC) The Dwarfs and Sindar elves were at extreme odds since the Second Age. So I don't see Legolas as being the young elvish prince. Maybe someone from elsewhere? Dorwinion? IDK, but Thranduil and his people are not very well liked at that point. Moran half valar (talk) 13:58, September 27, 2018 (UTC) : if Legolas was really born after the war of the last alliance he also would already be too old at the time. If that hauberk wasn't delivered yet in ta 2770 the elven prince in question must have been a kid of younger than 50 at the time, however wirh lanthir's backstory as we have it from merp, he doesn't have any younger children at the time... so we don't know where thar young elf may have been born,--Haerangil (talk) 09:03, October 6, 2018 (UTC) Olwe's Children Olwe only had sons and the daughter Earwen. Olwen shouldn't be a female, can you make her into a male or did one of his sons get a sex change in valinor? Moran half valar (talk) 00:45, October 9, 2018 (UTC) Need Some Help SA 3429 Hey Haerangil, need some help with the Commanders of SA 3429 do you know of any? I put Fankil and Utumkodur as the leaders (more spiritual) for Easterlings, but I don't know who to put for Khand. Can you help me out? Moran half valar (talk) 21:48, October 22, 2018 (UTC) : no idea, maybe i could look up the near harad and inland sea modules...--Haerangil (talk) 14:32, October 23, 2018 (UTC) Ok, thank you very much. It really does help. Take care. Moran half valar (talk) 20:09, October 23, 2018 (UTC) Lenwes wife I really can't see how Mormiresul fits in ANY way into the role ofvLenwes wife.They do not even vaguely live in the same geographic region nor are they active at the same time.Mormiresul is clearly the descendant of elves who never left cuivienen if you ask me.--Haerangil (talk) 20:03, July 2, 2019 (UTC) Well like I said, they started off in the same region but had a split with the journey to Valinor, but I won't include it. I do feel Celebrian would have selected someone else (or the White Council), but until you or Melkor find someone that fits our criteria (Eldar Chief, Wise, 30th level, etc.) I guess I'll just leave it blank. However, whether Mormiresul is Lenwe's wife or not, her character is under-developed with no stats, no backstory (other than she is a name that killed Utumkodur) that is why I thought it would have been easier just to call her Lenwe's wife, so we wouldn't have to create a whole new page for no reason. But if you don't want them to be the same then okay. Moran half valar (talk) 23:04, July 2, 2019 (UTC) Warg-King I don't remember but I don't know if he is a Textual Ghost. If so, where is he from? Moran half valar (talk) 19:59, August 8, 2019 (UTC) :he is mentioned briefly in the hobbit as leader of the Wargs on the clearing.--Haerangil (talk) 08:19, December 14, 2019 (UTC) Young elven prince I know some people think the mithril shirt has been made for legolas, however there are some points speaking against it.At first, legolas refers to the other members of the fellowship as "children" implying that he is of quite old age. For second, if legolas had been very young at the time of erebors fall, he would only be about 300 years old at the time of the war of the ring, that is quite young for an elf.Third, the eldar only sire children in times of peace... making it highly likely that he was born after the war of the last alliance, after his father had become king.well fourth... Legolas never mentions the mithril shirt was made for him ��--Haerangil (talk) 08:19, December 14, 2019 (UTC) In regards to the Elven Prince, I thought about this for some time. We know that the Dwarfs of Moria did not have a like for any Sinda which is what they saw as filling the ranks of Lothlorien and Mirkwood. I also feel that the item/mithril materials had to be evacuated rather quickly say aroundT.A. 1980 after the Balrog attacked and the mithril was brought to Erebor in T.A. 1999 The materials for the coat would then be requested for a young "elvish" prince in T.A. 2014, and the Prince is none other than Galador, the Prince of Dol Amroth. As he would fit the term elvish being part elf and he would be a prince. However, the question is then established, why wasn't it delivered to him? But as far as timeline and what published canon we can draw upon, I feel this makes the most sense. Perhaps it took longer to create than expected or perhaps it was made for Galador's descendant, the third prince of Dol Amroth who bore a similar title of "elvish" prince but once it was made, the Dwarves abandoned the Lonely Mountain and went to the Grey Mountains. Those are my thoughts anyways...for what it is worth. Moran half valar (talk) 16:25, December 14, 2019 (UTC)